unsolvable mystery?

[lou bertalan]

ok since everybody seems stumped in the same way: could you tell me at least if it reminds you a bit of argentatus? what age do you think it is: 1st or 2nd winter(cycle)?

[Theo Muusse]

I think its an adult!

No, I do not see a photo, so just kiddin.

Theo

[lou bertalan]

I think its an adult!

No, I do not see a photo, so just kiddin.

Theo

jeeeez! i really asked you a hard question! now here's the link: http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_phi.php? ... nuary-june

remarkable might be that from 29.12. to 9.02. there hasn't been any active moult going on - is this a hint towards an abormal 1st winter (+2nd cycle ) mich?

excuses

[Theo Muusse]

Secondaries and tail at least look 1st generation, leaving a first winter for aging.
The head suggests herring/ caspian, resulting in a first winter with a small mirror probably very rare in both.
Given the patterns on the scaps, I would go for an absurd argentatus.... maybe with some cach blood mixed in?

Theo

[adriaens]

Theo! I disagree with almost every word in your post...
Which ever way you look at it, those primaries are second generation, and I think tail feathers are probably too.
I find it difficult to judge the age of the secondaries in these photographs, but see no reason why they should be
first cycle ? Wing coverts and tertials are 2nd cycle too.

Looks like a 2nd cycle michahellis to me.

[JanJ]

Another vote for 2 cycle michahellis.

JanJ

[Theo Muusse]

As you like.
Those secondaries look brown-centred to me.

A 2nd winter (3cy!!) mich in february with such limited grey in the scaps?
Would be a first for me!

Theo

[Hans Larsson]

I´d also go for 2nd cycle mich. Note for example that coverts/lower tertials and most scaps are of the same generation. A pattern like this in a 1st cycle would require a complete covert moult. Although seen in southern populations, it´s not consistent with the 2nd generation upper tertials. Given it seems to be limping with one leg, could this be a reason for the retarded look? Anyway, dealing with large gulls, it seems one never can feel relaxed and chill out. The unexpected will happen, again and again...

/Hans

[lou bertalan]

thanks a lot, peter, theo, jan and hans.

hm - i feel there's a contradictive item: advanced looking in it's 2nd gen. primaries (with a mirror) but incredibly retarded (never saw such a mich before either, theo.)
the limping theory sounds plausible, weakend gulls often are retarded in plumage. it seems skinny as well. but now i'm slightly elaxed that you don't tell me this could be a tatus offspring.
9.2 in its 3cy (about 21 months old), a mich with completely 2nd gen. coverts?, with mostly 2nd gen type scaps? this bird strongly contrasts to the athens 1st cycle which actually started it's second cycle in 1cy: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131&hilit=dimitris&start=10#p576
don't you think, hans, that the upper tertials are newly replaced 3rd gen ones? but they have a retarded look. like maybe some 3rd gen still brown median coverts?

cheers

[Hans Larsson]

Sorry Lou, it should of course be 3rd gen tertials on this bird. I meant 2nd gen in the hypothesis with this bird being a 1st cycle. Regarding argentatus I think it looks like a fine micha in every respect, from head, bill (classic!) and body shape to pattern in general, not to mention the very nice tail band. I see no real reason to suspect argentatus.

Here´s another 2 cycle micha with retarded pattern in the 3rd gen feathers, quite similar to the bird in discussion:

http://gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/2cyo ... 4yred.html

One can imagine that the wounded leg combined with quite harsh winter conditions (as could be expected in Bucharest?) could lead to the bird losing most interest in renewing any feathers before spring.

Cheers
Hans