Het H word - hybrids from Poland

[Ruud Altenburg]

Here's a 1cy cachinnans x argentatus if you ask me (IJburg, Amsterdam, 10-11-10). Note in particular the relatively short wings and very fresh scapulars!

[adriaens]

No flight shots, Ruud ?
It does not look very wrong for Caspian Gull to me.
Hybrids often seem to have rather stronger barring on undertail coverts.

[JanJ]

...and if you ask me.

These are suggestions of arg x cach.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=l ... es_id=1081

Same indiv.

http://www.fugleognatur.dk/gallery.asp? ... e&ID=54287

Jan

[Ruud Altenburg]

No flight shots, Ruud ?
It does not look very wrong for Caspian Gull to me.
Hybrids often seem to have rather stronger barring on undertail coverts.

No, no flight shots. It was quite distant, the images (like all my other pictures) have been digiscoped.

Barred greater coverts also seem common in (first generation?) hybrids. It doesn't look too bad for a pure bird indeed but if, at this time of the year, I cannot spot a 1cy Caspian immediately in a group of Herrings I have the feeling something's wrong. It doesn't show well as I had to lighten the images up a bit (dull weather), but this was a rather dark bird that with the bare eye I identified as YLG! Incidentally the 1cy Herring in the background was very dark (LBBG-like), you can spot an average-coloured Herring in bottomright corner of the bottommost picture. Besides the points I already mentioned, also the amount of head streaking seems excessive for a pure Caspian Gull.

The problem of course is that there are first, second, Xth generation hybrids. Here's an example of another bird I identified as hybrid, plus a proven second generation hybrid from Poland.

[michal rycak]

Christmas puzzle gull. P5 solid, narrow band, dark eye and greenish bare bill parts are good for caspian. Rounded head profile with extensive streaks, amount of black on inner and outer web of P10-p9 with barley visible grey tounges fits more for herring. For me its presumed arg x cach hybrid. Any comments of these bird are welcome

[lou bertalan]

hi michal,

it might even be a herring gull with dark irides and a solid p5 band as shown by many eastern baltic birds. head shape and striation, body structure, short legs and short wings don't really remind of a caspian gull while the other features (p5 band and dark eyes) are not too rare in herring gull. it's mantle tone seems tom be paler than that of the adjacent argentatus!

merry christmas,

lou

[marsmuusse]

As we keep on struggling to ID this birds, I'll ask Chris-Greg-Brian to make their recent BB article available on the web. Maybe we can score birds using their suggested classification?
Something to do for the dark long evenings...

Mars

[michal rycak]

Hi lou,
thank's for explanation, dark eyed herring for me it's rare (this was my first if i have to honest) which i have seen, probably i missed some of them earlier
Mars, i'm still waiting for my copy of BB, christmas in Poland isn't good time to order anything via post, i'm prepare for looong waiting untill all these mess will be cleaned

[JanJ]

Someone (Peter) will probably correct me for identifying Michal´s gull as a good enough (dark-eyed) Herring...

Jan

[adriaens]

Not me! Dark-eyed Herring Gull was my first reaction too.