gulls of crete

[lou bertalan]

hi,

michalis dretakis has opened his own facebook-site "Gulls of Crete", and i was trying to ID some mysteries. especially i'd like to hear your opinion about this set: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 450&type=1 it contains 3 very interesting birds. you can see my comments there and post your opinion directly in the blog. 2 of the birds are very advanced 2nd cycles (one even with an almost white tail) with rather pale grey mantle which i associate with barabensis. but is that really the best choice? - given the knowledge that they should have a more easterly migration route and there is no (??) sure record in europe west of russia so far? bill is very weak, nothing i'd associate with armenicus, which otherwise could be another good candidate. please help
you would enjoy these great 2nd cycle heuglini/barabensis types - nothing we see elsewhere in europe that easy (except maybe for finland).

lou

[Theo Muusse]

Yes, mysteries.
I think I see a 2nd winter heuglini.
The other two I do not want to guess yet.

Theo

[lou bertalan]

the question is: can the ID as barabensis be supported based on what we see: a pale mantle, dark inner primaries, one within primary moult which might be too late for steppe gull? do heuglini get this pale? and the 3 birds (including the clearer heuglini) were said to be surprisingly small (thought to be common gulls initially...). barabensis visits israel regularly so it would be interesting to confirm its identity on crete, this would be the westernmost stray post we know, if it passes/winters regularly on the island.

[adriaens]

I would be extremely cautious with identifying out of range barabensis, even in Israel.
There appear to be quite a lot of strange, "barabensis-like" birds around in the Middle East in winter.
I will do a post on them on Birdingfrontiers shortly.

[lou bertalan]

I would be extremely cautious with identifying out of range barabensis, even in Israel.
There appear to be quite a lot of strange, "barabensis-like" birds around in the Middle East in winter.
I will do a post on them on Birdingfrontiers shortly.

thanks for this, peter. i'm quite confused by such birds which are pale mantled but fit the fast cycle sequence of heuglini/barabensis. i have not seen such birds in romania for instance but following the crete "mysteries" over the last years there are eventually birds like this. also from the southern black sea coast (samsun) - some look quite intermediate between cachi and micha or armenicus there...
i'm looking forward to your post in birdingfrontiers. has anybody colour-ringed barabensis on breeding grounds, yet? it seems not.

lou

[adriaens]

Hi,
The post is now online at http://birdingfrontiers.com/2014/03/28/ ... black-sea/.