www.gull-research.org

hello,

some 1cy have an extensive postjuvenile moult, remember this strange bird (whatever it is): http://chrisgibbins-gullsbirds.blogspot ... -nice.html by chris gibbins from sept.08 black sea coast.
and see this 1cy (slightly blown up pic - sorry cristian) which was in association with the 'thayeri 2cy'.
it has many plain grey scaps - 3rd generation(?) and some inner GC and MC. i just want to understand these early moulter better. adult grey greater coverts are 2nd generation, right? see attached.
edit: well, the greyish scapulars could be late or just plainish 2nd gen. ones since there seems to be a dull pattern on them.

open wings of same bird: download/file.php?id=444 see esp. right wing for grey coverts.
7.12. herastrau park, right? photo cr. mihai - i'm sure he won't mind me using his pics here as well

santé



lou

Why not a 2cy?

Ruud Altenburg wrote:Why not a 2cy?

On the spot.
Check the two different generation primaries, the second gen. with rounded tips.

Jan

I very much doubt this. The lower tertials certainly look like juvenile feathers to me. Also, the primaries do not look broad enough for 2nd-generation, I think.
The open wing shows juvenile secondaries and (mostly) juvenile greater coverts as well.

Yes Peter, you are probably right.
I was perhaps to focused on those primaries and the colour comtrast between them as seen in the images, outer ones seems pinshaped - although not worn to bits. The inners looks rather fresh I belive for a first generation ones at this time of year. In images, depending on angle, 2nd generation primaries looks rather broader in some and more narrow in others, which can be seen in the above ones. I would also expect the primaries to be fully grown in a 2cy by this time.

Jan

it is definitely a 1cy for the reasons stated by peter, most coverts are 1st generation (see GC). i know these kind of 2nd gen coverts from mid winter; see the attached pics from january - not so plain grey but dull with a dark shaft. i concludeed these are later moulted 2nd gen. coverts, not 3rd generation, right? but what about those scaps in the original bird?

Yes, Lou. The first two pics of the topic are taken in Herastrau. BTW, yesterday I saw there, for the first time this winter, a Larus canus.

i know these kind of 2nd gen coverts from mid winter; see the attached pics from january - not so plain grey but dull with a dark shaft. i concludeed these are later moulted 2nd gen. coverts, not 3rd generation, right? but what about those scaps in the original bird?

The moult process in the scapulars is very difficult to describe, as there is so much variation between individuals, but also because there is so much variation in the patterns. In general, 2nd gen feathers have an anchor pattern, sometimes with some extra transversal bars. This anchor may be obvious, dark brown and broad, but it may as well be ill defined, in which the subterminal line may be almost lacking, leaving a single shaft streak as 'the pattern'. When these patterns are ill defined plus they are pale brown, the pattern may be hard to detect when feathers grow older.

From mid November onwards into the winter, it is pretty safe to conclude that fresh upper scapulars, reckognised by the grey tone, must be 3rd gen scapulars. This is moreover true, when the 'scapular coverts' have been replaced for 2nd gen feathers. These scapular coverts are the longest, rear lower scapulars, laying on top of the tertials, and in 99.9% of the birds, these are the last feathers from the 'scapular region' to be replaced. For S France michahellis, the end of November is more or less the time.

By late November, many birds start subsequent moult wave in the upper scapulars, replacing the second generation feathers for third generation. The last moulted second generation lower scapulars show a brownish or buffish based centre with a pattern of dark bars or anchor pattern. The feathers show a broad white fringe. The new third generation feathers can show various patterns:
- again very second generation-like with anchor patterns but again with warm brown centres;
- a grey base with ill-defined anchor pattern close to the tip;
- plain grey feathers with a dark shaft streak.
Complete grey feathers are very rare, but some 1cy November birds tend to show plain grey, adult-like feathers (e.g. 947X, ringed 1cy michahellis from S France: http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/ ... ha947x.htm).

Moult in the scapulars seem to be an ongoing process right from fledging to late-November. Scapular moult may continue at a very slow pace during the winter months from December to March, but the major replacements take place until November. This is illustrated by the images in Nov 1cy (http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/ ... 1cynov.htm), which hardly show a bird with obvious moult gaps in the scapular region.
The extend of this scapular moult is probably strongly influenced by hedging date, but more research is necessary. November 2003, we checked 43 ringed 1cy michahellis in S France, at various locations. About 20% of these birds had all upper scapulars still second generation, without fresh third generation feathers. This figure may be higher (up to 33%) as observation distance was too far in some cases to fully exclude small third generation upper scapulars at the division of the mantle feathers, but third generation scapular scores in these birds must have been low anyway.
About 45% of the 1cy birds in S France had at least moulted some upper scapulars to third generation (45% of the birds fall in class 1-25% scapulars moulted to 3rd generation). Most advanced birds showed an almost completely replaced upper scapular region (2 birds fall in class 75-99% of upper scapulars third generation) and one of these birds even moulted most lower scapulars to third generation (class 50-75%). Not surprising perhaps, this is 947X again.

I've just placed a checklist on the ORG site. May be usefull when you want to go scoring in the field?

See viewtopic.php?f=12&t=132

bedankt, mars, for this elaborate presentation which i could follow entirely - should have studied more carefully your (rel. new) michahellis section. so it's absolutely normal, 45%.
good work that you did with scoring them back in 2003. unfortunately there aren't any YLG in stuttgart at least not masses of them to start statistics. so i'm bound to search through pics...
your sheets in the link about scoring don't work for me (yet), mars, just cable salad.

cheers