Kumlieni?

[vuelvepiedras]

Hi friends,

my friend Ricardo asked me for this gull identity. My experience with Nearctic gulls is zero, but this bird smells like...kumlieni?

Pics taken in Galicia, NW Spain.

Opinions very welcome!

Cheers!
Gabi

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[JanJ]

I think we can count kumlieni out on structure, bill size and bill pattern together with the dark tail and primary pattern.
As much as I also doubt thayeri, could it anyway be a third cycle type thayeri?

Jan

[Theo Muusse]

Or, as strange as it may sound, a 3rd winter with a lot of black in the tail, smithsonianus or its counterpart, argentatus?
Is it really from the USA?
The strange thing for me is the brown colour of the 3rd gen primaries in combination with this dark tail...

Theo

[vuelvepiedras]

Hi again

My question is:
Does it has thayeri that primary pattern in 3rd generation feathers?

An amazing bird, anyway!

Gabi

[JanJ]

Gabi,

If I understand it correctly, the gull is photographed in Spain. Strongly pink legs are interesting.

A few thayeri showing 2nd and 3rd types cycle plumages (varible). Note that the innner primaries on the subject gull (the one from Spain here) looks adult like which suggest a bird older than 2nd cycle.

http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/thayers ... s&page=all

http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/thayers_gull&page=all

http://www.pbase.com/birdfedr/thayers_gull

http://www.pbase.com/jpkln/thayers

Maybe we shall look for an European gull.

Jan

[vuelvepiedras]

Hi Jan et al,

The bird was photographed in Galicia, Spain, a few days ago. The location is a traditional place for rarities, well placed in NW corner of Spain. However, my friend Ricardo told me there were at least 15 Herring Gulls around (gulls go there to feed from fishing waste food).

My first intention was to place this bird into an European context, but...I rapidly got lost with such an outter primary pattern, leg color and structure.

Should we point towards a hybrid? maybe argentatus vs X?

Cheers!
Gabi

[vuelvepiedras]

I'm looking this bird again and again, and I'm still thinking kumlieni/thayeri is the best option.

Gabi

[Ruud Altenburg]

Maybe first we should rule out the most obvious candidate: Herring?

[vuelvepiedras]

Hi Ruud

assuming the high variability of Herring complex, I wonder if a bird like this may be an odd Herring.

I mean with such a leg color, tail, primaries, bill, overall size and moult. Variability is often the best explanation, but...where's the limit?

Cheers
Gabi

[Theo Muusse]

My problem (amongst others) is that the bird shows a 2nd winter like tail with 3rd winter like coverts.
The secondaries look rd generation, thus this bird must be a 3rd winter.
A 3rd winter with such a tail and brown-marked primarie-patterns is odd or impossible for argentatus.
The legs do look the american bubble-gum colour.

Do thayeri-like birds regularly show such a dark tail?

Theo